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Talk:Arnett McMillan/@comment-197.89.216.131-20160316101719/@comment-27788729-20160329145901
No, sorry, you shouldn’t have to apologize for off topic, there shouldn’t even be much of an off topic here. Sorry, I shouldn’t have hijacked this to vent like this, really feel free to say whatever, very sorry if I made you feel pressured or something. Yikes, as for me, sorry but I find it tough to keep my posts small. I kind of never minded reading long posts cause I find that the longer it is usually the clearer it is. But that's me so sorry about my long posts guys. Godric what I don’t really understand is why you say they ‘wouldn’t be real concerns in the manga’. Why wouldn’t they be real concerns in the manga? That really interests me because, putting aside all the other stuff like free will, determinism, mind rape, violation, consent, domination, protagonist-centred morality, self-insertion and such, at the end of the day, my key thing really is just this, very simply; 'If give full information and unlimited discretion to choose would Arnett rather be a slave under Kazuya's Freezing or maintain her mutually exclusive relationship with Morrrison'. If you could answer why that's not a problem I'd be really grateful. Also thanks for the offer but it really wouldn’t help me just to have someone else write an AU. My problem is that in canon, it seems, every relationship which doesn’t include Kazuya is now being said to be not genuine, just something the Pandora settles for because if she could every Pandora would choose to be Kazuya’s slave over having their own relationship with someone else. Until that changes I really can’t write anything because none of the relationships are actually genuinely in love with each other. Gotta admit I’m not sure where the military rank part fits in. I mean…sure but what does that have to do with the emotional relationships between like Morrison and Arnett? Normally speaking, today, military rank doesn’t determine at all in any way who you like or love. It’s got nothing to do with that. So…sorry but I’m not sure what you meant to say there. No, no I’m not saying that just because Kazuya has no romantic interest in them they’re settling. Maybe I worded myself badly, like I said I’m not very good with English, what I’m trying to say is if Kazuya could always successfully seduce, for example, Arnett into cheating on Morrison and leaving Morrison to be his slave, but just chooses not to, and then that’s the only reason that Arnett and Morrison are together, then Arnett loves Kazuya more than she loves Morrison. Let me put it another way, perhaps this is better, if Arnett was given full information and then told to choose between being Kazuya’s or in a relationship with Morrison and she always chose Kazuya if given the option, then she loves Kazuya more than she loves Morrison. I hope the helps clear up any confusion. I can’t really agree with your wife or farmer example either. Since pretty much what you said is ‘if your partner only stays with you because the person they want to be with doesn’t take them be happy about it’ and that’s definitely not love to me. If I get married and I know that my husband actually wants to marry my best friend and, if allowed to, would always divorce me to marry her, then my husband doesn’t love me, he loves my best friend and is settling for me. It really is that simple. Its why, actually, what Kazuya’s now revealed is a deeply unsettling fact. In their world Pandora no longer have a capacity to choose who they love. All Pandora are denied expression since they all will, if exposed to Kazuya, become his love slaves. They’ve been deprived of a key aspect of free will. It’s actually really quite scary to think about. But sorry, anyway, to try to sum up my response; if you had a situation where you knew that there was this guy who, if he asked your wife to leave you and be his slave, she would always leave you to be his slave (she’d even kill you if this guy asked) then yeah that’s settling. I mean, I’m going to be a bit frank here, if you knew your wife would happily kill you for a guy she barely knows wouldn’t that be really terrifying? I don't think many people in the world would say your wife 'loves you' if there's a virtual strange who could go 'kill your husband' and she'd then happily kill you to be with him. That's not love. I mean…imagine living in a world where no matter what you ever do your wife, everyone’s wives, will always and forever care less about you than they do about this one person. It’s really…actually quite upsetting to think about. This new power makes it now impossible for there to be love between anyone but Kazuya ever again. What a bleak world. Just a personal question but what does the existing relationship have to do with it? I mean, hypothetically, if Arnett’s always going to be willing to kill Morry for Kazuya or leave Morry for Kazuya what does it matter if they had a previously existing relationship? Explicitly by being willing to kill or leave Morry for Kazuya that means, naturally, that Arnett’s willing to destroy and throw away the existing relationship for Kazuya. So I don’t quite get what you’re saying. Also, I really appreciate it, but I really just can’t chill about this. The more I’ve thought about it, about what Kazuya’s power means for the nature of emotions, free will, love, compassion, bonds and existence the more and more I’m experiencing a deep existential dread at what the story’s implications now are. Its…horrifying on a philosophical level. In the world of Freezing bonds of any sort (friendship, family, lovers), as a concept, between a Pandora and anyone but Kazuya has become meaningless. No matter how much a Pandora might think she cares for her father and mother, her baby sister or brother, her best friend, her Limiter, her husband the moment Kazuya wanted her too she would instantly kill them all, forget they ever mattered to her and happily serve Kazuya. I mean, I apologize for the bleakness of the image cause it certainly upsets me, but Kazuya could literally just ask Arnett to slowly torture Morrison to death for him and she’d do it…happily and would still love Kazuya, see him as her master, despite doing that. From the side of the Limiters it is now equally pointless. No matter how hard Morry gets to know Arnett, bonds with her, shares experiences and pains with her. No matter what they go through unlike in the real world where that creates unique emotional bonds in Freezing, now, that creates only temporary chains which are always shattered the instant Kazuya wants them to be. Wow. Freezing has created a world which denies all Pandora any sense of objective dignity or freedom. They feel, have values and beliefs only because Kazuya permits them too. They have no capacity for free choice because any time Kazuya wants to fundamentally alter them he can, and they’ll be happy for it. He could literally rip away the most important thing from a Pandora she’d end up thanking him for it. He can paint smiles on their souls whether they want it or not. For them, I guess, at least there is no longer the debate of free will versus determinism. Their entire existence is simply an exercise in what Kazuya permits them to be. I actually need to read something uplifting right now. The philosophical ramifications of this are…really filling me with existential dread. To be fair...this is probably a lesson in why not to apply this level of analysis to a story.